Catch Up With June
Reviewing the papers for Andrew Marr
Last weekend I was a guest on the Andrew Marr show, I reviewed the papers alongside the formidable Amanda Platell, who as always was on excellent form. The top story of the day was Britain’s ever growing knife problem, as two more fatalities brought the death total up to 20 in one week.
Reading your comments regarding this issue, it’s obvious the majority of you are gravely concerned and feel, parents, teachers and the government must do more.
Jacqui Smith’s new proposals of making anyone caught carrying a knife visit a knife crime victim, on paper seem like a feasible idea but in reality will not work. I doubt many victims or their families would agree to this, but it’s also unlikely to have the desired shock effect on the knife carrier, as many of these youngsters have already seen knife victims in their local communities and know perpetrators who have been jailed.
We really must start implementing preventative measures very early on in their lives. For many of these young people violence is an everyday occurrence. We have to change the anger, aggression and negativity that prevails in so many of these deprived areas.
Other guests on the show included Sir John Major, who commented that Britain was ‘very close to a recession’ and Sir Ian McKellen who accompanied gay US bishop Gene Robinson.
Bishop Robinson’s visit to the UK was marked by controversy as a result of being the only officially elected bishop not be invited to the Lambeth Conference since it began in 1867. He attended the conference “informally” in protest and delivered a sermon last night in Putney, South London, but unfortunately a heckler brought the service to halt.
It’s so sad to see that in 2008, discrimination of this nature is still rife. The Anglican church made great strides towards greater equality last week when it voted in favour of women bishops, let’s hope they are also able to make peace with this issue.
Click the link below to watch the Andrew Marr show.
On a lighter note, check out Stylish News, where we’ve added a lovely image of the totally divine David Beckham. All I can say is Joanna Lumley is wrong - yes you do have to be “Posh to be Privileged.” Enjoy!
Have a great week.
Junexxx
Stabbings, homophobia and recession …
… look at the bright, shiny coin, readers … it’s Derek!
As far as I’m concerned the problem with the Church of England is it changes its rules as it goes along which make me question it’s accuracy and credibility. According to Gene Robinson he is the first openly gay bishop but there are many in the church. It is unfair to any members who were told this lifestyle was ungodly by the church but now are being asked to except it.
I agree June with much of what you say. The point is no one knows what to do, either with knife crime or with the very possible dis-establishment of the Anglican church. So much whitewash has been in evidence for so long that endless procrastination and indecision is inevitable.
I have some sympathy with Jacqui Smith. She has to do something. There’s none more pernicious than the gun-toter or the nihilistic knife wielder. And whilst I also concur totally with getting to grips with the root cause (why don’t we start by forever banning the building of rabbit warren estates and really challenging progressive ‘for living’ architecture) and really addressing social deprivation, a tough, immediate and very painful, lasting response is the only way for certain offenders. There are many, many ‘young people’ (awful term but..) who don’t use knives, are socially deprived and are as disgusted as the rest of us as to its use.
I have to say too that to be frank whilst I perfectly understand Andy Marr’s Show is ‘tele’ it’s as always a ‘Beeb’ luvvie fest proliferated with the usual suspects (no names, no pack drill) and is unhelpful as regards the need for serious discussion on what are very serious subjects.
I have to say that I was disappointed with what you had to say on the Andrew Marr show. I’m pleased that the discussion is including issues of personal and family responsibility but let’s not forget that there are still wider society issues that make young people look to a life of violence and crime - Britain is still very much weighted towards white, middle/upper-class men. I would have thought you would have been able to go beyond your ‘yeah-saying’ with the right-wing people on the show to highlight that there are still massive obstacles for people from minority or under-priviledged backgrounds and that we need to work on ensuring that there are real incentives for young people to work hard and become part of British society (and that also means more than positive role-models although that’s a start). I think it’s unproductive to simply focus on the disfuctions of young people who carry and use knives - it can be a dangerous cover-up for people openly criticising and airing their prejudices towards black, under-priviledged etc people in Britain. June, please leave the media glitz behind and become a bit more nuanced in what you say!
I’m sick of people using poverty as an excuse for the crimes some of the street gangs and teenagers are committing. Yes poverty is a factor, but I’m from a poor background and I’ve never had the urge to commit crime or cause someone physical or emotional pain and like myself, I know many people who have fought through poverty without any parental guidance to reach their goals and they’ve succeeded.
As a young black woman I can honestly say that I’m frustrated and embarrassed by the negative images (of black people) these criminals are helping to create. We already have to work 3 times harder than our white peers to achieve the same amount of success because of discrimination. These people are making things much harder, especially for young black men. We’re the minority in this country, but we seem to make up the majority in gangs and knife carriers. That needs to change. The problem is not poverty, the problem is parents. They need two parents, not one, these parents need to teach their children how to have values, goals, to take responsibility for their actions and to make good choices in life. You don’t have to be rich to do that, but you do have to lead by example. It’s not the goverments job to bring up kids, but a military style Boot Camp would help for those who haven’t been raised right and the schools could perhaps make life skills part of their curriculum.
I think the whole social system needs an overhaul. I think the good old 60, 70s ways of discipline should be brought back . The culture of respect, goodwill to others should be cultivated from a young age.
‘Military-Style Boot Camps’? What? So as well as fighting two shit wars that no fucker cares about much these days, taking rounds and IEDs and ending up hobbling about in Headley Court whilst ‘people’ (hint-hint) chat about David-fucking-Beckham, sorting out firemen’s part-time duties whilst they strike for more pay (fopr six-months work, like) and plucking helpless householders from the roofs of flood-plain conurbations they should now be tasked with correcting society’s wrongs and reprogramming your little dysfunctional tykes for whom Left-Wing Fabians have perpetually wrung their hands about? Yeah, the military are well up for that, I can tell you. I suppose they’d be happy to do it on their paltry defence budget whilst the social security cash cow bleeds the nation’s wealth into the pockets of these ‘disadvantaged’ (i.e. unteachable, physically-sound and anything but ‘disadvantaged’ - go walk round a school for paraplegics, blind, cerebally palsied or mentally incapable to see REAL ‘disadvantage’).
Why not start the old ’sling em in the Army on National Service’ chestnut as well, huh?
Hi june terrible news to read you sent about the stabbings and so on. In sweden recently a man has killed 4 gays by stabbing them to deathh because he is a homophobia. He pretended to be a homosexual just to get them. I got chills when I saw the trial on TV. One thing I just did not understand was how these man could just trust a stranger Just Like That…. I was shocked by the way they also changed partners in the gay community. All the same it does not justify their killings
This is a reply to Stun. Your comment was very confusing. To be completely honest I had no idea what you were rambling on about half the time, but I have to say that I never once mentioned that the cash strapped military should run the ‘military style’ boot camps I was talking about. That’s something you just assumed.
I know someone, personally who has been to prison and said it was more like a summer camp than anything else. In my view the prisons are far too soft and these criminals aren’t facing the correct punishment for their crimes. Many of them get their sentences cut because of a lack of space. There needs to be lots of reform in the way these correctional facilites are run and yes I do think a military style boot camp would be a good way to reform these youngsters. They need to know what hard work is. Why should they have it easy?
While you found a lot of time to criticise my comment, I don’t see you coming up with any great ideas of how to tackle this issue. Read comments carefully next time you pass judgement on them, you might have misread something or got it a little bit wrong. I’m looking forward to hearing your ideas on creating a safer London. We’re all frustrated by the same thing here, don’t forget that.
A ’safer London’? What about a ’safer Glasgow’, ’safer Leeds’ or a ’safer Exeter’? Is this site just about ‘dat London’?
Leave the ‘military’ out of the situation here for once. Sure, toughen up the prisons, make criminals pay for their faults but never overlook the basic fact that the formative years are the most important. If you want a solution to this, then start with the schools … make them more structured, disciplined and formal. Bring back uniforms, non-corporal punishments which limit the freedoms of offenders and non-conformists and ensure that the learning environment is devoted entirely toward building citizenship and betterment, rather than a babysitting service for the idle. This needs to start at 4 years old … and continues right through the learning process. Empower teachers and headmasters, stop making those entrusted with our offspring’s welfare so sacred to censure and get a grip on tomorrow’s population. Sure, the liberals will hate it (and the rest will just pretend to) but this nation either siezes the initiative now and forms the minds of our progeny, or we forfeit everything to thuggery, greed and violence.
The only way to control any animal is by pain, or fear of pain. That doesn’t mean red-hot pokers up the arse for stealing apples, but forfeiture of freedoms and priveliges backed up by the moral willpower to carry this out is a superb guiding platform. If people fear this, and are conditioned to recognise this, their appreciation of freedom and censure is heightened. People state, ‘no one fear prison any more’, but as children, did they fear their freedoms and priveliges being removed as a pennance for their problem-causing? I doubt it.
The ‘military’ isn’t the solution for society’s problems, nor are it’s edicts. The ‘military’ have their own problems. Society needs to sort out it’s own problems and can do that in early life, were it arsed to do so. We get what we deserve. No ‘white-girl-rappa’ or knobheaded Mayor of London is going to solve that with pleas to the already deaf.
Good enough for you, Dolly?
Yes it is Stun and I absolutely agree with you on controlling the situation from a young age. Saying that a lot of these children who are becoming involved in crime have already been expelled and completely excluded from the school system. They have no direction and it’s a downward spiral from there. You may not agree with my idea of a boot camp, but they need to be forced to do something. Something very undesirable that would make going back to school seem like the more attractive option. That’s if any school would take them.
Dolly I don’t wholeheartedly agree with the ‘two parents’ comment you made. I don’t think the amount of parents is an issue as such, I think as you pointed out it all has to do with guidance.
I know a couple of people that are sound, sane and successful based on a one-parent upbringing, due to the solid guidance, communication and activities they grew up with.
It depends on the kind of surroundings and messages a child grows with, whether it be parent or parents, peers, teachers, friends etc.
If the parents feel frustrated, depressed and angry at whatever unfairness they feel they have been dealt or issues they have faced, they will often take it out on their children and pass that mentality on to them. Their children may then grow up with the same negative perspective on everything and some may be easily led into a destructive and criminal lifestyle, enticed by the feelings of rebellion, recklessness and ‘power’..and so on and so forth.
Of course this is a generalization, but I feel the key is in instilling the right positive perspective into the minds of the future generation.
More parenting skills and support, more activities and opportunities for both parents and children.
I do feel that youngs boys need a strong male role model in their lives and too many men are walking away from this responsibilty. Even if they are no longer in a relationship with the childs mother, they should help bring up the children they brought into this world. But I also understand that many of these fathers couldn’t be good role models if their lives depended on it.
Also lots of the offenders are products of teen pregnancies and many of these young girls haven’t a clue how to bring up children. I don’t want to paint everyone with the same brush but I have first hand experience of it, having grown up with a mother who wasn’t much older than myself. First of all your mother’s broke most of the time and then your not led by someone who has had enough life experience to guide you. I have to be blunt when I say that so many parents get it wrong and stupid people tend to have more children than smart ones. I was lucky because I had other role models (just like Emita mentioned). These offenders aren’t so lucky. They only have their so called ‘friends’ to lead them into crime. It’s still no excuse. I pity anyone who can gain satisfaction from watching others suffer. It’s almost like they’re missing something from their brain that woud make them feel empathy. It’s very strange and I don’t understand it.
Hang on. So the feckless ignorance of fathers walking away from the responsibility of parenthood is SOLELY the responsibility of young males, is it? I think a passing nod toward the life-choices of a few certain females need a mention here. You can almost predict the outcome and sod off into William Hill for a flutter regarding some relationships. Granted, we’re just hairless primates at heart who follow basic animal traits, but living inside the skulls of some young women it seems is a smooth grey lump of jelly, primordially programmed to home in on the planet’s wankers in the mistaken belief that surrendering their vaginas is a surefire way to cement a lifelong partnership in furthering the human species. I punch the air when I encounter the odd occasion when I meet women who have total control over their choices in life partners, and have selected him not because he has a cute smile/arse/six-pack, but because he will build a planet of love, respect and care around her and their offspring. It’s refreshing to know that slowly, surely, this is on the increase, but not after Captain Shithead and his team of users have lain the landscape low with their own brand of sub-Loaded ‘laddism’, which seems to never fail to succeed in producing next week’s Jeremy Kyle victims.
It isn’t always the bloke’s fault. The more you feed the monkeys, the more they will grow.
I’m a mother of 5 (4 boys and a girl); and I hope you won’t mind me providing some background information before the suggestions; plus, before people pounce and say ‘excuses’, please read to the end.
First, when I was young, I struggled in school and was disruptive in lessons, having been labelled as having ‘learning difficulties’. The only subjects I understood and passed were English Language, and English Literature. At the age of 18, when I was not being forced to study every single subject on the curriculum, I successfully completed a Mass Comms Diploma, and then Journalism Diploma with a Distinction in all papers. Suddenly, when I was studying to my strengths, I was no longer classed as having learning difficulties or ‘labelled’ as a no-hoper. I started out in IT in my 30’s, and by God’s grace, am now where I am, having taken over 30 different IT and management exams since then.
My daughter is 22, and in university; yet my 21 year old son is walking the streets claiming benefits because he has been classed as ‘autistic’ even though he has always excelled at one subject ‘Leisure and Tourism’. I also have a 14 year old son who is the most talented musician I have come across, yet gets into trouble in almost every lesson except English and Music. My son drums and plays the keyboard at weddings, church programmes, and watches mainly gospel music videos at home, and doesn’t go anywhere outside of church functions. He is the most respectful person on the streets, yet he walks around with similarly minded children at school who are not learning what they are there to learn because he doesn’t understand anything other than music for now. He’s 6 foot tall, yet if we ban him from going to choir practice for something he has done wrong in school, he bursts into tears. He leaves home at 7am on Sundays to play instruments in church, and comes home at 3pm, yet struggles at school and disrupts all his lessons where he doesn’t comprehend what he’s being taught – which is wrong, obviously, but something I remember myself doing when I couldn’t understand what I was being taught.
I would like to suggest the government considers making an alternative curriculum available to all children from the age of 11, whereby those who desire to follow a vocational curriculum from that age are allowed to do so, e.g. if Maths, English, and a new ‘Citizenship’ course (which teaches the true meaning of the word ‘respect’ to our youngsters) are compulsory subjects for all from the age of 11 to 16, then why not allow kids to choose only subjects that interest them in addition to these e.g. IT, music, sport; you may find our youth become keener to remain in school, including after school hours, rather than roam the streets. For students who are not particularly ‘academic’, this might just be an incentive to stay in school and actually learn. If a child wants to be an international athlete when they’re an adult, that doesn’t make them a lesser person than someone who wants to be a banker.
Another matter not being considered about young black boys on the streets is that many of them do not come from single parent homes,i.e. they don’t have any parent in the country. I have been a single parent twice before and know other single parents; none of us let our children roam the streets – even when having to go out to work to put food on the table. I did not allow my children out to play,and still don’t,and neither do my friends who are still single parents, yet we know of some young boys who have been brought to the UK by relatives, and simply ‘dumped’ into the welfare system - which should not be a ‘free for all’ as it currently appears. These boys with no parents in the house, are the ones most likely to join gangs, rather than boys with even just a mother in the house – one of the Ferdinand brothers wrote in a newspaper last year about his mother, who was a single parent, not allowing them to play out on the streets after school. I strongly believe in role-models and mentoring and, as a priority, Afro-Carribeans need to put forward mentors prepared to reach out to try and influence the gang leaders – the members will only do what the leaders say so there’s little point targeting the members or else, as the members respond to mentorship, the leaders will just go and recruit other more vulnerable kids.
There also needs to be more youth community centres, not run just for black kids, but rather special interest community schemes, e.g. IT, Dancing, Athletics, Music clubs to attract youth of every colour and creed as long as they are interested in the activity being practised at the centre.
Something also needs to be said (again) about the fact there is a disproportionate number of black people making it to the top, despite there being an abundance of talent amongst us. When I attend IT Director forums, I’m usually the only black face in the room and when you consider main corporations such as EDF, British Gas, Sainsburys, BT, their Boards are void of ethnic minorities whilst the customers they serve are obviously from a very mixed ethnic background. If our boys don’t see ethnic people up there as Board members, how do they aspire to get there themselves whilst carrying in their heart a sense that all their efforts will be in vain?
Finally, there needs to be stiffer penalties for youth who, despite all the social care interventions they receive, still choose to take a life and indeed seem to look forward to going to prison. Most of these youth know they will be caught within a few days of committing a murder, and know they will face a custodial sentence for killing with a knife, yet still do not fear the sentence – simply because the custody suites (cells), are not as harsh as they need to be.
Joe Arpaio, an American Sheriff, appears to have got things right – i.e. he makes sure people are so humbled by their time in jail they don’t want to go back if ever released, people come out his jail wearing a badge of shame rather than badge of ‘honour’.
The day prison becomes a place of shame for people to go, will be the first day every other initiative might begin to stand a chance of working.
We continue, everyday, as a family to pray for the end to the bloodshed in our country.
Ok, again Stun READ THE WHOLE COMMENT BEFORE YOU PASS JUDGEMENT! Never did I say that it was the sole problem. I would never suggest that was the sole problem. Did you not read the part about teen mothers? These are aspects of the problem. There are plenty more aspects that need addressing, one could fill a book writing about all the social problems this country has. As I said before Stupid people tend to have more kids than smart ones.
Bloody brilliantly put at the end there stun.
It’s not a battle of the sexes, and I’m sure there are loads of issues that create gangs and knife crimes that makes it incredibly difficult and pointless to point the finger at one thing in particular.
Speaking of pointing the finger, there are a lot of people quick to judge and criticise people who are trying to do something…ANYthing to help the situation, for example Lily Allen speaking to Boris Johnson about making knife carrying ‘uncool’ has caused some people to get angry at their angle on the situation. I agree on some level with the complainers that youths don’t carry knives just to be cool, but instead of sitting on their arses moaning about how Lily and Boris are trying to tackle it, why not commend them for actually trying to do something and then offer up a better alternative and an explanation as to why that idea is crap.
It seems to me that this nation of moaners and finger pointers is forgetting that we all have to work together as a team and try to do whatever we can to change this escallating problem.
Young people need to understand their value in society before they can give it their respect. Anti-social behaviour, knife crime, whatever. You name it, a lack of respect for others and themselves is the driving force behind it. There are so many excellent ideas on how to tackle this problem on this page alone but I am surprised that many posters cannot see how their views fit together to make the solution. It’s not just about family or education or economics, it’s about it all and that’s why a blunt-headed, single pronged policy attack will not work. Putting everyone who carries a knife in prison is like popping every spot that comes up on your face - sure it solves the immediate problem but we all know it’ll come back ten times worse!
The answer to this problem has to be a round one that takes account of all the symptoms, not just the final outcome. Education is the priority of course; we all know that our childhood is a large part of what forms us and we should be pushing our children to be confident, happy and responsible. They need to believe in themselves or they’ll never believe in society.
I am afraid I have to disagree with Dolly’s suggestion that two parents are the only definition of a happy family - it is not the quantity but the quality of your parents that is important. However I do believe that her suggestion of some kind of social service is an excellent one. If you leave school at 16 and choose to sit on Jobseekers allowance rather than actually work for a living, why shouldn’t you be required to contribute to society? I’m not talking about boot camps or YTP-type street sweeping schemes; the aim here is not to degrade but to enrich. Think of all the community projects, support centres and social facilities crying out for volunteers! If you give the next generation a stake in their future by showing them the value of life it would be much more difficult for many to be so cavalier with it.